mbooks.com, it's her autobiography. melaniephillips.com is her web site. this is booktv on c-span2. .. hardenstein, thanks for being on booktv. >> host: and our live coverage from the l.a. times festival of books continues on the campus of the university of southern california. and now another opportunity for you to call in and interact with an author, and this is the

pulitzer prize-winning michael moss. anhi n >> another opportunity for you to call in and interact with ant author. this is our author that is featured in his book. what happened in minneapolis in l of 1999? >> i start the book without meeting. it is so informative of the attitude and strategies. in 1999 from the obesity epidemic was just beginning to9, emerge.r at they were at the hillsboro headquarters in minneapolis. ow.

he was armed and laid out the ce ceos and presidents feet, the responsibilities for not only the obesity crisis, but the of diabetes, highe blood pressure, heart disease,r, even link to their foods with several cancers.n he pleaded with them to collectively start doing something on behalf ofmething consumers. the competition inside the food industry, you know, it's funny.d you walk into the grocery store, nn it seems so tranquil, there iste softicusic playing, doing everything that they can tocan encourage and shop and buy. the behind the scenes, the food industry is intensely undeod

competitive. the only way to move the industry towards a healthier profile would be to get thisd a collectively to do something. bo from his vantage point it was a failure. both to they left the meeting going back reviewing process sugars andfoo? fats.ho we are looking at bolter processed foods.ssed even a baby carrot can beostly defined as a processed food. it doesn't grow that way in the ground.od b it gets shaped into the babyecau form. pendenpically,it processed foods

it's not a mystery, you can pick up the label, you can see somecu government regulation that wep have.yo you can see the amounts of saltu and s cugar and fat than meat of items. it is rather extraordinary across the board of the grocery store.. stjustow reliant industry is on these ingredients. not just for flavor but for convenience. also for low-cost. so, michael moss, what do youosh mean about it atat this point? >> welcome i trained as an: yo investigativeu reporter.and in

as a reporter we are trained to follow the money.h of i was lucky enough to come across a troll of internal of documents that puts us at the table at these large companies are planning, plotting, formulating their way to creating new products. but i have to say, the most funi for me was hearing the language that they use in talking about their own fruits. w these are not english majors. these are scientists and marketers and ceos. it is the term that they use to describe the warm and presentation when we bite into a toasted cheese sandwich. it's actually not one of the basic facts. it is not one of the basic cases that aristotle wrote about many years ago. man that is a sensation that is picked up by a nerve ending the

reaches to your nerve ending. it sends the signal to the just pleasure center of your brain.he boy, it is a powerful ingredient for them.. >> you write that the blood gets besieged when processed food ise injustice. flooding the system with salt bue thgar andfl fat. we're gets really interesting is in the brain. there, narcotics and food, especially foods high in salt and sugar and fat act muchch alike.once they raced along the same along pathways from, using the same neurological circuitry to reache the brains pleasure zones. they give us enjoyable feelings for doing the right things by

our bodies. our >> there is no word that it leads to addiction, but i do trt to use it sparingly. i because they can convincingly argue that there are some differences between foods beten cravings and narcotic cravings. however, when they talk abouthon the foods it studies how the brain reacts to narcotics and the most highly palatable sweetness and fattest foods. she has found compulsive intake

and she even goes further to the emphasize food cravings. >> for obvious reasons, the word addiction is a particular touchy subject among food manufacturers. they prefer saying the product is capable, stackable, almost anything other than saying that it is addictive. for them, the term addiction or causes images of strung out terd junkies who hold up 7-eleven at gunpoint for the money that they need for another fix.un

addiction i am told by people inside the industry and in washington as well. people looking at the looming b anssibility going after big food. to the you know, look, in litigation, there are a number of cases of obesity obesity associated. that is the estimate for how much obesity is costing they are

treating people and it was a much smaller number. the industry is rightly concerned about litigation. litigationen one as a mind. >> we will put the numbers on the screen.thos if you'd like to talk to michaee times", yor new york his recent book is "salt sugar fat: how the food giants hookeds us." of the numbers are on the screen for your timeen zone.ast if you can't get through on the phone, send us a tweet.ific t here's our twitter address and you can make a comment as well on facebook. now,fa you spend quite spent que a bit of time in your bookhael s

talking about portables. why to use that as an example?s. what a >> it is a tv dinner type of asn trade that is marketed toxample? children. on one level it was the solution to a problem at oscar mayer meat company back in the 80s. people were letting less red th meat, being concerned aboutpeope saturated fat, which is a type of fat that is associated with heart disease. and also salt.ating revenue was something theyat, weren't interested in. it some of the smartest marketing people to figure out a way to repackage the products. a and i think bob brand is a wi genius marketing official. kraft and he walked through the me incredible effort that they put into coming up with a product up that would not put people off

like the packaged bologna that they were selling. but after months of research and study, his team came up with ard lot of balls, this little tray,. a little bit of spice of hammer baloney, cheese, crackers, bit because they couldn't use a bread company needed something.n he did make an effort to make id more nutritionally balanced by adding fresh carrots and applesh slices and immediately realized that they would not last more than a week, much less a month that portables needed to stay, s either in the warehouse or the supermarket or waiting for someone to buy it. but it became a huge hit.to buy. i think you hit $218 million. it was astounding. in nobody expected it to take off like that.with they came up with other lentils, pizza once was, hobgoblins pizza herbals, then went they stop to

think about it, and it was the status symbol of these g cutein adorable lunchables to te lunchroom. all of your friends gathering around, seeing you put it together and eat it. put and they came up with this incredible marketing slogan hitting on that.they so for kids, they say that once time is all yours. the marketing power, as much as muing salt and sugar and fat an ingredients is phenomenal in the industry. >> of a supersize the salt andlu sugar andga fat? items >> one of the things they came out with was the maxed out the lunchables. for children, especially, it wah maxing out their daily recommended loads for many of those things.

i mea recently dialing back, making them healthier, one thing about thelectibles is that they introduce into the grocery store, t which really is a phenomenal thing that nutritiona is very worried about.ried i think we are inherentlye thinking, okay, their soda, thin chips, basically going in there to get food that is going to make me healthy and strong. t but to have the grocery's goinge manufacturers start to mimic faceted and introducing it into the grocery store, it was fa foo something of grave concern. a >> a couple of examples that we. have here at booktv, healthy snacks to get across.>> guest

this is a protein bar. rig. stat could possibly be wrong with thiars? >> well, we have to turn and look at this fine print. this is certainly the industry,e protein is a big buzzword.indus. so when you're reading the finen print their, that's what it'su'e rated as. 18% >> and is actually a lowball al. figure. if you follow the guidelines,ita the 3.5 is actually more than 80% of your daily value.high >> actually found out the top nutrition is sugar.up. i know that disappointing for some people.ointing f high fructose corn syrup, in the recent issue of how it perpetuated the soda consumption in this country. consump but basically it's another type of sugar they need to beun concerned about.

>> 170 milligrams of sodium.gram >> the recommendation is that wy moved eating no more than 1500te in the day, grams of sodium. those looking at the whole dailf allotment.e whole dai >> fruitly snacks. >> yes, again, fruit is a healthy buzzword that the ngdustry is putting out there, i especially to pull u.n., as presenting these two kids and as but wh have ave for sugar? uestnd 11 grams. that is more than: 2 tablespoo. that is significant.are >> one of the fascinating things [lau about chips, and i really think this is so interesting because y love potato chips. cou

i couldn't figure out why they induce such incredible cravings and people. we know that the salt is right there on the surface of the the chips, providing what the industry calls the flavor bursts.dialls your saliva races to theinto pleasure center of the brain, which sends the signals. and they say, okay, let's get o more of that. we know that the senses are soae soaked with that. and that gives the pleasurable feeling. races the chips are also loaded with h sugar, a convertito starch itself, which begins to convert to sugar thet instant it hits your tongue. so you have the holy trinity yoe there of salt and sugar and fat, all interacting.duct, but but just just make you like the potter product but to make you

want more and more.they did resh the more you like it, the more e you're going to eat.nt, so that's why the crunch is essential. >> a lot of athletes during this. so it's good for you, is that drink? >> well, my diet at home, you sl can be looking at it as salt an sugar and fat, we are doing our best to eat more of the fresh fruits and vegetables. the interesting thing about the power, sports drink, chocolatent milk, are soda consumption has declined over the past decade and areat consumption of the de alternative product don'tse immediately signaled the things. it has increased, almost takingr up the slack of the sodas. that is anothere example, it ise

pitched as a healthy food andary drink, but you really have o to look at the nutritional labels to figure out just how much sugar is really d in their. >> the author is michael moss,el the book is "salt sugar fat: hok the food giants hooked us." are we have our first caller. >> host: ption is, i have noticed that a lotle of processd um, i've foods and foods that are terrible forf you, it definitely affects inner-city kids becauset it's cheaper for families to buy food of that nature. i was wondering about fresh foods being so expensive, is s there a sense of urgency to really push the fact that these foods are terrible forre a you?e and what is being done to lower the price of fresh foods thatsol people can afford to buy this

and be healthy? >> you make a really good pointa i have spent time to sort of understand that. people talk n about food where people have limited access to full grocery stores where they can buy fruits and vegetables, wh their it's really more of a food stamp because they are a surrounded by corner stores that sell almost nothing but salt and sugar and fat and soda and snac cakes so the kids can run inan n dollarfor a dollar and run out with 350 empty calories that a h they will eat on the way to cale school. the white house is looking at at ways to lower the cost of fruitr and vegetables, and it's amore really difficult undertakinggets that they are still grappling with. but that is one thing they arede looking at in order to level the playing field of the grocery store and.

asou he walked in, the highly processed foods are more affordable. so even if you want to do thely af right thing by yourself and your family and eat more fruits and vegetables come you're going to pay for it.nd e yes, people are looking at p strategies to try to level that out. on >> we are making food tasty compelled bymake foo populard t taste. >> think it's a bit of a chicke and egg thing. e it intentionally was set out too make his obese or otherwise ills they are doing what companies do, which is to make more moneyd by selling more products. and i think that they would be happy selling nutritional products if they could do so at the same low prices and to se satisfy wall street. that is one of the issues that .s looming.street they are under severe pressure

from wall street to keep this i up. so they have shaped our palate e and it's really incredible. stru i'm struck especially by sugar babies to be something that you grocery storehing y and the ice cream aisle, the candy aisle, now you see so many products in the store bittersweet. storthat are bread and pasta sauce can have as much sugar in a tiny littlegu serving. yogurt, low-fat yogurt can have as much sugar as ice cream, and we have seen it migrated process as the company's target list.ur we are hardwired for sugar. our bliss point a for sugar, it, especially targeting kids.cientx they are exploiting the biology of the child by making children

expect sweetness and almost everything that they now eatin their parents by the store and t think that that is the issue. >> have they changed the formul> for ketchup? erotic ketchup bottle last night i saw a lot of a group tour sponsor is one of the main w hih ingredients.yrup a >> i'm not sure the year when i'm notarted addingn sugar, but it is hugely sweet these days. d it allows them to actually avoit using moreists tomatoes. by adding sugar to tomato t products. tomatoes are not naturally as sweet and wholesome as some tomatoes and cost less. typically that is to reduce the cost of the products. so much of the food industry is driven by cost because it

includes cost formulations, not what they are looking for an in the strategies in formulation. >> we are talking with michael m moss, the auluatthor of this bol "salt sugar fat: how the food of giants hooked us." sugase go had. >> yes, how do you balance our >> calleof choice in america, you know, the great experiment.i can man rule over himself with those who think they know best l for us like bloomberg. is he right by saying that i basically know better than youby because you are addicted with yu this flavor verse? you, do you think the government should step in? >> i am empathetic with those c who criticize bloomberg and bloomberg an hd call him than anything the nanny. we've heard that decades ago when washington tried toawashind regulate sugar and salt as welle

the playing field is not level. in the absence of government gon intervention, what we have is incredibly big credibly smart iy companies running tens of billions of dollars every year, not to to contest was products w on a but more and more, so much of it targeting is aimed at children. these are children who no longer get home economics in school. girls and boys used to be taughs how to cook and eat nutritionally aware. that fell by the wayside. and so kids are exposed to not and ing any better and that is the picture that i think you have to grapple with when youthi are weighing sort of this when independent and good governmentd intervention.t: do yo eat >> do you eat any processed

foods? >> oh, my goodness, my wife works outside the home. not a week goes by when we come home and have to go in the home freezer anand pull out somethin because it is 7:00 p.m. and we haven't thought about what we're having for dinner. p.m., and nner.now, that being said, we are trying. with our boys, for example, i w make him pancakes in tithe morng and i slip in whole wheat flourn and they don't notice it. wole i also have a bag of frozen pand blueberries. and i slip those into the pancakes as well. interestingly, i said, hey guys, why don't we limit our coldrest, cereal consumption to brandsit consumptrams of sugar or less. now when we go shopping withgar. them, it is a bit of a hunt and they look at the cereal aisle, l they look at the fine print, and you can find healthy products i.

you look for them with cereals l typically.call were i have to retire on the toh shelves as the industrylf strategically places the most sugary brands at the high levels another interesting thingsle. happens, we find that when we engage our kids in the elemension about nutrition, you can need to communicate that.ou let's try to limit is for these reasons. smt, so when they bring those cheerios home that have just 1 gram of sugar or special kay were total, they actually like it better than they would otherwise. if they had the others, they would have the through loops and go for that. but education of the children is very much moving forward.

>> the next call comes from fred >> caloma park maryland. >> is wleanted to say that ihati stopped eating processed sugar in 1990 and i lost a good deal 0 an weight. store we try to avoid anything with supe glue clothes, fructose, it'sa -- doable.'s to eat very well. thank you. >> thank you. that's good to hear. one thing that i do hear from the nutritionist that they h caution about is to avoid focuso on one of these elements tooe much. because it really is about a balanced diet. in some ways, it kind of plays into the hands of the processed food industry.

the 80s were especially big for concerns about sugar. so they would come80 up with low sugar products that would still be loaded with fats and salt. they got rid of trans fats and reed thed fats as well. they m can be super high in sugr sodium., and no one i did some research looking at efforts like other countries to come back.ggat and sodium in places like britain and finland have reallyically cut back on their sodium levels. but the obesity rates are starting to climb in those countries. you do have to be careful to understand the big picture what you're getting at. ge >> you writing write in your book that is something this that

low-fat, the food manufacturer may bump up the sugar content.ay >> bottom line, they do have to toep b their products irresistiy tasty as before, no matter how they might fill the formula.er that is the bottom line for them industry. so they will bump up from the other elements if they reduce th it. >> how strong -- can you tell us of about the lobbying process. >> there were efforts to go inry. after the marketing of sugary o products of children especiallye it was severely concerned about the inability of kids to inab distinguish between advertising and reality. so huge of a percentage we are getting on saturday morning,or high in sugar, and it came up

with a proposal to try to limitt that advertising that was going along fine in the lobby of the g food industry along with marketing just put the kibosh og that. it is anwith incredible and incredibly powerful force that people are going to did deal poe with now as consumers becomeowet more concerned.bodies. you can't underestimate thebiliy ability to hold onto the marketing position that it has. >> our next call comes from walter in washington north carolina c. hello. in >> hello, this is about the british and europeans who found out that they had been feedingeb eating horse meat. i'm wondering if that coulde happen here, or is it happeningt here? could we follow the dot, please? >> well, before i was writingd. about pathogens before "salt sugar fat: how the food giants hooked us."

it started with an outbreak ofit salmonella in peanuts being processed in southern georgia and the alabama border.ts bei an outbreak of deadly salmonellf in 2008. i began looking at that. the issue was the food food industry is losing control over itsth vendors. the manufacturers are scrambling to find out if they use these peanuts in their products. and then there is in the cold light outbreak in the same issue came up with that as well. i think to some extent, the issue with the horse meat e scandal and pathogens, it has grown global and sensitive to inicing. it is very difficult for them to monitor and control the safety of those ingredients. said to

there is another looming healtht crisis in obesity and diabetes and etc. there are two separate issues of the same trillion dollar anonessed food industry. >> soda is such a popular drink. you believe i it's dangerous tos the human body is a dangerous drug? body as i th think if you are looking at patterns of intake for some people, they are going to finds it really hard to resist when w get todro much soda. again, it's a matter of a, it's integ to kthink. >> coca-cola is so perfectly blended. the industry calls it very

specific. by blending the ingredients in an item so you don't remember any single ingredient as you drink it, they'll actually encourage you to sort of come back to it hours later. actu it's a really interesting really concept. it is used both in food andood d drinks. >> is next call comes from arizona.of >> i want to write a book about what i am bringing up. b that is the reason story, if yos would just share at about vegetable oil is in the young va 15-year-old girl who got on the internet and got thousands ofet

people to complain to the makers of gatorade, why is it in your itorade that it is banned in europe, supposedly gatorade -- inheiris still the same and mountain dew. >> these companies are like bige aircraft carriers. it takes them time to turn. especially when a change of thep ingredients in their formulas. this is a good example of consumers becoming more concerned that they are putting in their bodies and becoming kind of like it was inir researching and writing.story. an one of the fascinating things is picking up the box or the the bx container and looking at the fine print and learning so much about that product.just ow do your own detective work.

it is an empowering thing.ndust empowering for us as consumers. whether it is this or other additives. i find it is really empowering as a consumer. it helps you and we are the oney that decide what to eat, how and ho much speed, and that is a position of power. >> the last ingredients on gatorade are glycerol and vegetable oil as is the caller mentioned. what does it mean? >> you know, i don't actually >> guest know.in there are some 5000 different additives in food. i've looked at a few of them, but i'me ar no means have i donn great deal ofs them.is not

so it is a serious issue of concern to people. >> a healthy processed food, how how do these levels compare? >> it doesn't mean it is lower a or healthier and salt and sugar and calories. refers to and hopefully it is the aim of the organic level ine the growing of organics. one interesting thing that iing find, besides looking at theting fine print, i really like to this is where you see added t calcm" orr that vitamin or

low-fat and i often see that as a signal to look for it this the because that is where the information is. >> the next call comes from orge, in wilmington, delaware. >> hello, i can see where salt and sugar and fat are bad foru. you. recommending more fruits and vegetables as an alternative. i'm just wondering, with pesticides and herbicides, goine from one bad thing to another bad thing. to what we are doing? >> that is a really good point. the fda is there to regulate

this.don't thu ne i edthink at this point we all soat do be dependent on the tolerance limits for pesticides, herbicides, so that if peopleat move more to fruits and vegetables, but that is a real e issue to look out for. >> mary macgregor is watching>>y us. mcgregor this is a tweet. obesity on full display behind l you. it addresses why americans are not even interested in discussing this issue, especially parents.discussing >> i actually think that americans are becoming more concerned about what we put in our body and more concerned about obesity and diabetes. and they're talking more about

it.ng habit i actually find that the bu conversation is increasing and hats off to michele obama for raising the national conversation about obesity and health and nutrition. these products are sooductsare compelling. call it is hard to talk about something that you love to eat. >> what was the reception from the food companies when you moss approach them about salt and d iar and fat? >> it started off with a trove of documents. thousands of pages, the largest companies were formulating their way, those documents enable me

pr to convince the top scientists, marketing officials, ceos to talk to me and reveal even more reve secrets. i was surprised by how many my genule have genuinely concerned about health associations with products. you know, that being said, thes. industries themselves, when the employees are inside the game and it former president of coca-cola is expressive, you are living competition with your competitors. it is hard to see the bigand its picture until you step out.turel going on the country and talking about this, i have been approached by former industry officials.said exacst couldn't see what you were talking about. but now itloo can.e compan >> this is the name of the book, "salt sugar fat: how the food giants hooked us", michael moss

is the author. of the >> hello, guys, how's it doing.? , artificial sweetener to cut down sugar intake. dra i would be interested to know what you have to say impact of foods that otherwise may ben loaded with salt and fat. >> i heard that read byeard nutrition scientists. d in the studies have not been done yet on that. it doesn't work to help them reduce or control weight.ven't diet can sort of act, people

could view it wrongly as a prophylactic that will inoculata them. a go back to eating a sugary candy or an 800-calorie muffin. tha's changing one element of your to diet without looking at that everything else is it going to f be the silver bullet. it will compel you to look for sweetness in solid foods that fr might be sweet with real sugar.s you're going to get more calories that way. inuteff in new jersey, you are ff, yo

>> yes, hello. i would just like to comment one what you are really doing. um, and that is to talk about the symptom rather than the cause.pa the obesity epidemic we are facing is because of the is caue collapse that we have seen in sn water consumption from about g to 80 gallons in 1960 the15 reason for that is a 100% shift for beverages and milk to 100% g non-fillable system for beverages and milk. that is what has collapsed and d dramatically increased soda consumption. back to you would not see anywhere nearu

the consumption of sodas we wenn back to beverages likeyw milk. all that bottled water would be nonexistent. >> thank you. >> okay. d>> host: t >> that is a really interesting perspective. i have not heard thathank befor. in terms of looking at all of the causes of obesity, one of te the more fascinating ideas that was presented to meis by a mre weight-loss expert is that starting in the early '80s, it t became acceptable to eat be anything, anywhere, anytime,at that is when he started to see people walking downan the streen bringing food into the business meetings. and i k that to was sort of a mindless eating where you're going hand to mouth, over eatinf out of the equation. i think much of what i am hoping for is to move people back

towards a mindful eating as opposed to w mindlessly. ea that place is also into sodamind consumption asle well. also >> a last call comes from will and lincoln, delaware. >> when you think about folks that influence you, the 1960s, looks like sugar blues, what were their influences on yourhar interest?ur >> you know, it's funny, the biggest influence was a highst school teacher of mine. i took hern journalist journalim class and she said something toi me. she said, i think that you havea shknack fors this. thankfully it was one of the kindest things in any of my for teachers said to me. so i started in journalism first

and i did investigative journalism. an there are so many other thing vestigigative reporters out there. upton sinclair was a great upto ninspiration. he helped to create this inspection system that we now he i'm in i am and all of the journalists and writers and people who really care about issues to really dig into things. i admire them all.weet, anr >> this is something that you discussed in your book.your how much of the food industry nsume th actually consume their own products? >> i was surprised to meet so people. meet so top scientists, marketers, ceos who do not indulge in their

products. i have spent time with the top i s technical officer. thing the first thing he did it stop eating potato chips. he was one of the people that couldn't stop with one tiny serving. in avoiding those products, he s knew he might not be able toble control. >> you noting here that since he 1970, we have tripled our cheese intake. in our sugar intake. on the average, it is s 22 teaspoons per person per dayn >> yes, up to 33 pounds ofe up o cheese per year on average.r again, a detective story back i thein 60s, less whole milk out

th left th for saturated fat. a bunch of whole milk and milk e fat to make low-fat milk, they tharted makingmi ice cream. the government began to buy tons this.ronald rean the cheese was going moldy.his,s what congress did was create a system for the dairy industry to eated raise this for the consumption of cheese.een this marketing power, not justpr cheese, but cheese that you eat as an hors d'oeuvre before a meal. this is cheese that is sold and used as an additive to processeo food. to get you to >> "salt sugar fat: how the food giants hooke ld us."

>> that was michael moss discussing his book. >> on facebook.com/booktv. on may 28, at 9:00 p.m. eastern time, booktv will host a discussion on social media sites. >> shirley mattox is left. she talks about her book in an effort to remain there for 47 days. >> a small airport back in the 20s, the military came and

establish this during the second world war. originally it was the army corps and then it was very active for a space and quite an attribute until after the second world war ended and everyone left. it was thought that they didn't need it anymore. it was closing down. the little town of yuma -- there was no construction going. the town had not a very bright future. so with this population, they said that something has to be done and has to attract attention to try to get the reaction.

>> and parker, arizona, about 80 miles from here, they were members of the chamber of commerce in one of them was manager of the local radio station. trying to think of things to do. two men were trying to stay aloft in a private airplane for about a thousand dollars to break the world record. a couple of them said, we could do that. we could show the whole world of the fine weather every day. every time the flight would be mentioned, they would say human, arizona. he was the next eight and 10

ex-navy pilot, he said oh, that is great, that is a good idea. were scriven was the manager and they think of another pilot who is also someone that they knew very well. for that reason he became one of the two pilots. they did find an airplane. it was going to them they took out the seats on the right-hand and they put this in for the off-duty pilot. it took four hours in the off-duty pilot said he can sleep or exercise or do some of the toys as well. so the train and practice and

figured out how to stay aloft. which they finally did. >> we first took off in may of 1949. their first attempt failed. but then they saved up for several days and had another major problem and it is really hot here. and they said, oh, we can do this. but then they took off and on an errand they were supposed to go over to san diego and check this out. but they stayed locally most of the time, except for one night when my brother was taking a

nap. before when he realized. he said, i don't know, you are the pilot. what we were dealing with was pretty interesting. a friend of our family enjoyed this and she had bought a convertible that was sitting right here. and he and my brother started practicing with how this might work. and it turned out that they took the americans from a dairy and the off-duty pilots could reach down and went down the runway. whatever direction they wanted to go.

that was 65 miles per hour. and the crews from the car would help in the off-duty pilot would help. and it would be that they could do more and more runs about 12 hours later. later, near the end of the flight, the engine was getting kind of tired. including making a circle around. taking this up with food and a little bit of a change of clothing and they could just do

whatever direction that they would want to do. as my brother said, 500 acres of asphalt abandoned. everything was done by a local restaurant and the spirit of yuma was involved, you know, every little lady in town talked about this. they were the heroes of the day. they started getting national attention at some point. and there was a program entitled about it. they actually interviewed the pilots by radio every night.

probably kind of late in the flight, when they built the record, the lights went out. and the actual record was broken, everything made noise. it was pretty exciting. and they somehow didn't complain about anything.

>> they took it really well. but they lost a little bit of weight. they are not overweight, but that was not serious. but it did happen. >> would ultimately ended up happening? >> it was reopened with a little more than a year. >> that includes commanding officers, those two bring things back and they said he went from 9002 -- last i heard was 110 or so forth. >> well, unfortunately, nobody knows why the airplane was taken

away. but it did. my dear friend who is a co-author of the book, they went through the anniversary of the flight. the chamber of commerce got involved and he was going to sell it. he realized that it is important. it has been in storage for years. he said if i'm elected, i will find a home for that airplane.

and eventually it was arranged here in city hall. then my husband and i decided to use this. and it was totally worn out. but eventually my husband and i found another car and restored it back to the same color and had loaned it indefinitely. >> would you think would've happened if those pilots hadn't gotten enough claim? ..

and reports on reforms during his three years as president of ominous regulatory czar from labels on food contacts and calories listed on national restaurant menus to streamline student loan and market applications. this is a little over an hour. [applause] >> thank you so much. it's a pleasure to be here, an honor to be here and i'll tell you a little bit about what i did in the obama administration at the also about what the next generation might look like. i want to emphasize for the

privilege i had to have the job i ended up with when i was her stating around the state and are hoping to date by now other of two young children. she asked me, and i think this was a test to see if it maybe could be a day. she said if you could have any job in the world, what would it be? is subsequently found she was hoping i would say at the center field for boston red dots are the e. street band with bruce springsteen. i can't remember she does a little better than i do. i got this starry faraway look in my eye and i said ira. and she said, what the is ira? should have used a four letter word other than hack. amazes me that the second date. my job in government was to head the office of information and

regulation affairs. the office servers use on the federal regulation. so it was thought by the department of interior or the environmental protection agency the department of state. unless there has an exception and exemptions are unusual, it has to go through the oira process. that means an expensive regulation including safety on the highways were air pollution are educational system needs to be approved by the office of information regulatory affairs. of course that this isn't an independent act gear. as part of the white house team. if i ever thought to myself, i don't like this rule, but everybody else loves that, i think i'm probably mistaken.

that's probably pretty good. that was the concerns i have. nonetheless, oira hazard survived republican and democratic administrations has been the last resort within the executive ranch in terms of the issuance of regulations. that's the basic idea. it is the case notwithstanding a lot of concerns about regulatory cost and i share the concerns of the neocon administration there were fewer rules than the first four years of the bush administration. the bush administration is not thought of as the regulation champion, but had arose their neocon administration in over the past decade, the highest cost year we have on record is not any of the obama years, but 2007 under president bush. he had the highest cost year. to his credit, president bush high cost here was not as high

as the clinton, reagan and bush by their years, so bush had the lowest highest cost year. but obama is limited not. so we haven't seen like an explosion of regulatory cost and that's partly testimony to the direction i had from the president to avoid overloading the system, especially in a time of economic challenge. i'll tell you a little bit in the recent pictures. the human mind it turns out has two systems of operations in that. system one, charmingly named this more intuitive than not a mandate. that's the part of the human brain that homer simpson often is listening to. as for example when it's trying to buy guns at a local shop in installed base of five day waiting period and a response, a five-day waiting period? i'm angry now.

[laughter] if he saw a large german shepherd on the street or an angry tiger in a suit, you might be getting very concerned, even though the objective risk is small because the attacker is behind bars in the german shepherd is nice. system one tends to be automatic and intuitive and error prone. system two is the more deliberative or color-coded system. we have in our mind machinery that has evolved a little later, where we can run the numbers and think the risk associated with large dogs are typically small and into the creatures are typically behind bars and not at me to us. has a finance and social scientist that is extremely revealing and testimony to the 21st government century must be late to send errors to which someone is thrown, some of the mistakes they make, not

calculating probabilities, getting too upset and exercise code being too complacent when there's reason for fear. some of these go away when they answer questions in a language not rl. we bear in our own language in don'ts in a foreign language. why is that? that's a mystery. part of the answer is when you're speaking a language that is not around both which you have some familiarity, you are working hard. your automatic system, your homer simpson itself is in retreat because the language is unfamiliar. system two is deliberative nondogmatic, nonintuitive system is operational. cost-benefit analysis was one of my kind print both under the president's direction, meaning that the human consequences of what you're doing.

if its environmental rule, is it going to save a lot of lives of a few? that's going to impose cost on small business, are those large or small? the cost-benefit calculus is a foreign language. not how would ordinarily think for intuitively think about rules designed to protect safety on the highways are free safety. cost-benefit analysis is a useful tool for disciplining both the harmful effects of lobbyists and well organized groups pretty self-interested and disciplining the homer simpson part of the brain. we know human beings are prone to error in multiple ways. if you tell people to get a flu shot. if you tell them here's a map of our decathlon, the likelihood people get a flu shot full text

dramatically. maps are very important because system one needs maps to figure out what to do in fist into is often preoccupied with other matters. complexity is often a terrible problem and the reason is people are busy, the people who produce complex instrument or documents often are specialists. they are sufficiently attuned to the fact that area in question is unfamiliar to the people handling a. in government, i often saw the following. people who are designing rules involving in ireland for paramount's or forms for taxes or something else, who would produce the forms and complete good faith, thinking they would be manageable by people and they were surprised the thing turned out to be hard to navigate. it's a little like if you go to a town that's not familiar to

you and you ask, where's the gas duchenne? in a sea turn left, turn right, go two miles and will be a red noted on the right, you can't miss it and i at least always miss it. people in government are sometimes like it. the local who is not helping you typically is that mischievous or cruel. they're not trying to get you lost, but they are not attuned to the fact you are not familiar with the context and the way they are. something to say about default rules in a little bit. what i want to emphasize now is if you think of yourself on, mortgage, rental car you get for a vacation, relationship you have with multiple people you are contracting with, there are default rules in place in the sense these are the rules that determine what happens if you do

not thing. your computer has various settings, privacy settings, other settings about what comes up immediately. these determine what happens unless you expend effort. if you look at large cities these days, they tend to have touchscreens, which have default tips of 20, 25 and 30. those are a bit higher than the average before touchscreens were in place. this had produced a 10% increase in new york city and tips. that is equivalent to a very welcome grace for cab drivers to get the money because of the default. defaults are everywhere, all around us and they help determine what happens because nothing is exactly what we will do. google and new york had a cafeteria making its employees

quite obese not long ago because the foods readily visible and there were really fattening and pete were defaulted into choosing not. there is a new design of the cafeteria in new york where they have the healthy foods visible and up front and the ones available, but not so salient and immediate. that has resulted in a significant decrease in candy consumption. the basic ideas with respect the respect of so many things that help determine our future, the default determines what is going to happen and we need to be self-conscious about designing very good defaults. one other thing about the operation system that is the intuitive part of the brain. for most people, unrealistic optimism is just a fact. 80% of people tend to be

unrealistically optimistic in the sense that tank they are less likely than most others have more than statistics were to be immune from bad things. unrealistic optimism is part of the human species. that's good in many ways, helps us achieve things. if you can do something, chances are you won't. if you're able to, chances are increased that she will, even if it's going to be tough. unrealistic optimism has many virtues, but it also has a downside. 90% of people up in time to think they are safer than the average driver. that is unlikely to be true. if you take a couple and ask each member what% of the household work do you do and if the total once you add the two is not over 100% coming of the most unusual couple.

that suggests both the unfairness in the hostile context, typically the guy is not pulling his fair share and risk-taking in the context of driving, savings and other behavior because system one is cheerful in a beat and system two is nervously saying would see precautions irby are honest about allocations. system two is trailing behind systemwide. okay, two systems in the morning. i have a little daughter who looks a little bit like that. that's not her. you can see here that one feature of modern technology when it's working great is it's extremely easy to navigate. it is in the case that what lies behind a tablet easily navigable

this is so simple. the affordable care act is really complicated offense the last many pages. if possible so many aspects will be easier to navigate than the length of the law suggests just as modern technologies are child's play for people, even that they themselves immensely complicated. if i have one idea for your dream were, it is even if governments inputs and his sons, the laws, regulations are themselves lengthy and detailed anon plain language always, it is possible to implement them in a way that makes the user experience more like that of modern technology you. an example for you is that wesson is a a financial each package for poor kids trying to go to college. the forms used to be immensely

complicated and hard to navigate. they're not exactly child's play now, but they're a lot easier. so simplification is for customers and citizens a great friend and complexity of the potential adversary. we need to make government more like this picture. for concepts for you. simplicity is a very important path because of the harms introduced by complexity. a few years ago i did a book with an economist friend called madge. freedom preserving meaning people can go that way as also paternalistic that it tries to give sense and benefit a little help. an example of a madge is just

information, where people know before they owed in the domain of mortgages. if you want to get a mortgage that's maybe by the expert judgment a terrible deal they can, but at least they know its ingredients. another notch his design of the cafeteria is a healthy foods are easily available and visible and the other side they are, but your kindness matched against them. choice architecture is probably the essential idea of postmatch and my new book, "simpler." our choices all have an architecture behind them. even though it's not readily available to us in the sense we didn't help design it and even if that's not how we think about it. so if you go on a website design books for grocery stores selling food by record stores selling cds, there's an architecture they are to affect choices.

if you are filling out a form, explains and order will effect what you do. recent studies suggest that people sign a form at the beginning, there markley to be honest and less likely to cheat and at the end. the reason is that the beginning concentrates the mind on honesty and you're on the line. there's also evidence of a candy is in a great rapper, people are more likely to think atop the, regardless of whether greatness is anything to do with it. the fourth and final error has to do with human susceptibility to air, which is a lot to do system one. the brain is an extraordinary thing that can outperform computers, even the fanciest on many dimensions. i've noted the tendency towards unrealistic optimism. we also don't do great with issues of probability.

if an event has occurred in the past, a flood, earthquake, we exaggerate the risk he will occur again. it's a risk hasn't occurred in the past, flood, earthquake, we downplay the risk and think it's low. uses that do something have recently recently isn't crazy, that could lead us to be complacent and circumstances but there's a real risk and can latest to be fearful circumstances in which system to , the calculator system will tell us you don't have to worry a lot. sometimes people disregard the long-term. here is a study that kind of proves this. if people are saving for retirement, often they don't do so great. long-term is a foreign country later land and they don't know if they're ever going to visit. if people see digital photos of

themselves getting older and older every time, if their own photograph is a scum of likely to save for retirement. there's something where you can age your own face and see over time. merrill lynch is thinking not only be a side of my cases unpleasantly surprised. not so bad at 107. maybe they have a generous issue. people are more likely to save because it becomes real. that's evidence the long term often seems looser via an imaginary. we don't care a whole lot about it. also, a lot of things and situations the human mind doesn't notice. system one focuses on what matters is what's most salient. there may be other features, energy efficiency for the fine print of a mortgage.

and it won't work hard enough to put it there for people to notice. now i have 10 ideas for you and not go pretty quick. 10 proposals for greater simplification and each is set to be a little short story. number one americans don't save great for retirement. this is a problem for people who struggle when they get to retirement age. here's a chart that shows in the plan. it is easy to do that, but people.because why not do it tomorrow if you don't have to do it today and tomorrow never comes. people are automatically rolled. a study shows the effect of

automatic enrollment increasing savings significantly higher than the effect of tax incentives and increasing savings. automatic enrollment doesn't cost a nickel. tax incentives cost a lot. the automatic enrollment policy jump savings more significantly than big tax incentives. there's a lesson about making things automatic can have big social benefits, even more so than taxpayer resources. they are the happy employees who are content with automatic enrollment plan and not opting out interestingly. they have a small number verse. two, this is the united states department of agriculture food. made. it's been around for a good while and its design to help

people to make nutritious choices. you can see from the pyramid if it's a man or woman. maybe you can tell the gender. who's locking to this day there. is that goodness. is there purgatory? is that moral goodness? it is unclear where he or she is talking to. that brown thing looks like a shoe. nurses to eat a shoe. if you're a teacher or parent or 11-year-old looking at the food pyramid and trying to figure out what am i supposed to eat if i want to eat healthy. this is confusing, is it not? the obama administration got rid of the food pyramid and replaced it with the play.

and the government to have a slogan, which i kept in my head, basically all the time and it went plate, not pyramid. when you work with citizens are one another to create ambiguity and complexity. often when people are responding with negativity to an idea, it is not that they don't like it. is that they don't know what the idea is. ambiguity can be a great barrier to helpful suggestion. if you clear things up, success. i had a friend not long ago when the government but the important negotiation, where he appeared before negotiation look doomed. the negotiation can work out because the other side was

implacable i called the friend not been set on the day of the negotiation, how did things go? her answer was great, which is not expected. i said how come? her answer was plate, not peer amid. the reason the person to implacable is they didn't know what was being suggested. once she was a little specify, dayside turns, the initiation went extremely well because the vast majority were agreeable. idea number three. here's a long line at an airport. many of us have experienced this and this is unnatural and widely appreciated response to various risks after 9/11. but it's not very pleasant. here is something you may have

seen now to talk to your attention. this is the obama administration initiative in the department of security have deleted. there is something called the global entry program now, which is meant to avoid a one-size-fits-all approach to the system of screening and how they've are risk based approach so someone is an american, you put three to process, but not in horrific process by any means. a lot of people have gone through. you get global entry, which when you come into the united states come you don't go through one come you go through a kiosk. it's simpler and people are benefiting all the time already. visit domestic analogue, which you may have seen, which says if you qualify for global entry, there's a good sense of being the program also, which is

risk-based rather than one-size-fits-all. under this don't take your shoes off her computer out an online misery briskly. this is an effort to reduce difficulty of air travel and wit that is more finely tune to the actual national security situation. atn number four. waiting for taxis is occasionally awful and there is a picture that exemplifies that. especially if you're stuck someplace that isn't taxed the filled at midnight or 2:00 in the morning calm he may have trouble. you may not go to that place because there isn't a taxi available. and here's the general idea about the knife is made difficult and complicated, sometimes even poses against social cause because searching and matching is arduous. we have to search out some end

item match. cannot impose restrictions on the system of individual life. there's a company in san francisco called cougar, which had an idea, which is why shouldn't everyone have a batmobile? not everyone will have advanced abilities, why shouldn't everyone be able to order the equivalent of a terrific car when they want. the app is called cougar and the idea is you download the after after -- and you can order your batmobile, which is frequently a limousine, a little more expensive and i'll come get you in accordance with the schedule they tell you about. it's typically very short, sometimes three minutes, sometimes for minutes and you can actually see the car coming to get you on your screen.

see how it is, how far and coming towards you. the profound lesson, which is atn number four is matching is searching off as a real burden and complex of fires in human life. let's see if we can use monotype elegy to try to simplify it. i give number five. as a confused person. that person could be fees for any number of reasons, galicia stated reason a person is confused as it tries to do if the united states government with respect to taxes. the documents insuring to understand or just not in plain english. the united states government imposes overnight really annoys and burden hours on the american public annually. if you check a city larger than

philadelphia or san francisco, had a population bigger, put them in a new city larger than philadelphia and san francisco when everyone in the city to spend 10 hours a day, every day, including saturday and sunday for the next year. at the end of that year, all those people well and aggregate has spent billions of hours fewer on government paperwork and the american people do every year. it's a staggering number. part of the reason is that none of plain english. george orwell, author of 1984 verdigris paper called basically i'm plain english, urging uses a short word rather than a long one. you short sentences rather than big ones. a bunch of tools, which

government is moving towards using to simplify language for the public can interact better. in 2010, congress did the plain language act. i was charged issuing guidance to ensure that agencies of the direction and we are seeing a revolution in favor of greater clarity of government. no charging. jargon free zones. idea number six is a very unhappy high school senior try to apply to colleges and this is an unhappy high school senior, but my guess is a very significant percentage of americans have been one or another way been struggling with applications, whether for a small business loan or mortgage or some benefit that the government entitles you to.

why not application easy. i refer to the financial aid form, which is gotten much simpler. i'll just tell you to visit things that make it simpler. one is fewer questions in another is in code on the form, dated the government already has so high school seniors and parents don't have to do it. the key thing here is to ask a high school senior to produce a lot of tax information from their parents isn't the easiest thing to ask them to do. the parents might not have staff available. it might be a little awkward for the high school senior to see this stuff and the kids doesn't have it. i'm sure the irs department of education worked together so they just put it on the form. the initiative has been

nominated in paperwork. application easy is the way to go. the health care system can benefit greatly from this. i'm not sure, i hope very few, but the number of times this completely duplicate it. makes patients could be the high school senior. here is someone drowning in paperwork and red tape, regulations and the birds and some by virtue of their cost and yours. that can impair growth. another things the president asked me to do was to oversee a government review, in order to take away those outmoded

unjustified. this is a very big deal. both producers for risk. this is often small businesses, farmers being subject to the same series of regulatory controls placed on oil producers when they're transported their goods across waters. oil spills are very bad its environmental consequences should be avoided. milk spills aren't that bad. to treat the reduce is the famous oil producers doesn't make any sense. we took away the rule, which is saving people a lot of money to wish they would otherwise be subject. he may seem a gas station that have the nozzles with

technology, including air pollution control technology. in some states, the nozzles of air pollution control technologies that his duplicate is because the cards are to have the technology. environmental benefits, the nozzle lets not name. it's dollars of environmental gain. the epa under the regulatory look back cover the nozzle requirement. that's a lot of millions of dollars saved. the biggest winner thus far in terms of the yours, not a lot of publicity. ever notice about the affordable care act could things be initiated by regulatory they are, no doubt about that. in the same period, the department of health and human services went over the universe of conditions and participation on hospitals and that is in nurses and eventually patients and found a whole bunch that don't make any sense into them

away. by saving billions of dollars in costs over the next five years. as part of the package, one that didn't save a huge dollar amount, but is having a real impact, there were restrictions on telemedicine such that doctors couldn't through the internet telephone help patients and promote rural hospitals. i was a restriction which had a point designed to make sure there wasn't any, you know, fraud or unqualified doctoring going on. but in this modern technology. the problems are easily manageable without a flat prohibition. we took with the restriction that there is rural places getting great medical care through telephone or the internet. and that is making them healthier as well as saving

money. that's valery chariot, senior adviser and the picture is of relevance to the discussion because and not very discussion we were having dinner, he was emphasizing the importance of the regulatory look back at simplifying the system, eliminating unjustified regulations and asking me, what are you doing about it? i've been giving examples of what we've been doing. here is someone dealing with paper. here i want to use paper for the first time in the literal sense, not paper as a metaphor for burdensome forms. and i hope you know who that is, the colorful wreaths at the 19th 60s, bob dylan. he did something that got a lot of attention in 1860s, created a bit of a stir, made pete

seeger equate folksinger very angry. and this is what he did. he went electronic. what we need to do, a lecture actually. what we need to do this in many areas replace paper with electrical electronic filing. in the tax system, we can cut some of the billions of hours imposed on the american public by allowing electronic filing in the irs has moved very much in that direction. that needs to be better understood and used more. some of the things i worked on, which involve disclosure requirements to ensure consumers and workers know about what they are getting in to. companies came time and again can say we get it, we'll do it. don't make us do not paper to people.

it's expensive and not throw it away. let us use electronic notification, maybe that the people who want paper or opt-out and ask for it, but let us save millions of dollars in costs which will eventually imposed on consumers by going electronic. here's an idea i am particularly excited about. many people, even if they are frugal don't have a clear idea about how much they spent on energy last year. many people, including if they care about money don't have in their head or even a very easy way to find how much they spent on credit cards last year. many people don't have clarity about what they spent on health care last year. utilities companies know how much he spends on electricity last year. the credit card companies know how much you spent in annual

fees or late fees or whatever last year. your insurance provider knows how much he paid health care last year. shouldn't you? it is designed to develop an outpost of apples comparison so people can see cashier, cash they are and know what it is. the college-age smart disclosure. in the fullness of time being followed in the united kingdom as well? this potential for saving people money and markets for better. if there are hidden fees you find it a pain, you never quite saw or didn't even see them collectively. you shouldn't have a right to see that. you can decide whether the plane you are in is the right one for you. maybe some 10% or 20% wider electricity bill last year than you need it to you.

consumption habits that is a significant money and he was a different provider. this is true in countless domains. the power of information sold to disclosure. not if it's buried in complexity. there's a way of making consumers smarter and some complicated financial literacy. just give them the information to make their own choices. complexity is an obstacle to informed choice. simplicity but the on-ramp. an unhappy family that i can tell the tale is why they're unhappy. they are unhappy because everything is just a complicated. they don't have rules announced

in advance and they're negotiating everything every day. they love each other very much and please to report. the kids don't have clear standards that decide who does what when. but that hasn't laid out, so negotiation is the stuff of daily life and that makes this family that worked so well. here's another family. they're pretty happy. here is why. simpler begins at home. the basic idea is the complexity is often increasingly governments passed, not its future. some were but the way economic strategy increasingly. but also in our daily lives, interactions with one another with our friends, the real

problem is not enough care about each other. they don't have clear understandings of what to do in cases of disagreement or conflict. if you have a will that establishes that happens in circumstances, the negotiation is entirely unnecessary and enjoy their lives. the time to start both in the private and public sector may be pretty early in 2013. thanks. [applause] >> eager for questions and. >> thank you.

the electronic question seems to be a generational one. i'm thinking of a good friend of mine who is my age and very smart, who refuses to do the electronic business because she spread all sorts of that bad things can happen, but she doesn't want to reveal private information, social security number, et cetera he so is this something only applicable effect to the for the younger? >> that's a great question. there is something one cabinet department did in the last few years. they send out papers salaried wage notices every month or every two weeks to employees. they thought that probably wasn't a great idea. what they said is we are going to start sending electronically. if you want to paper, get the paper. it would be to notify people in the context you're